Your Green Bay Packers: Telling It Like It Is
Charles Woodson missed nine games with a broken collarbone and isn’t what he once was in coverage. Primarily, his age (36) and salary cap number — Woodson is due $10 million in salary and bonuses in 2013 — are working against him.
Oooh a slideshow!
Hate those things. I’m sure it gets the sites click numbers up, but they’re annoying as shit.
I think Benson and Finley will be back. Woodson might be back if he takes a pay cut. Not sure about Tramon Williams. He is certainly not guaranteed a starting position. If he falls behind in training camp then they’ll probably cut him.
What do we know? Saturday, Grant, Hawk, Jennings, almost as good as gone….I want to put Tramon Williams in that category in the worst way. What do we get for 6.2 million in Williams? Maybe a couple picks….Will not tackle, unless its with his shoulder, Whines, when he’s called for blatant penaltys, receivers consistantly beat him. Loves to point fingers at team mates when gets beat. We have Casey Hayward, Sam Shields, Davon House…..I say go after Aqib Talib….Say what you want about him, he’s a GREAT corner, 18 interceptions since 2008, all indications are he’s cleaned-up his act. And most likely, will be a bargain. Talib is 4 times the player Tramon is. (See Anqwon Boldin, after Talib got hurt in the AFCCG)….Now Woodson is another story. Will they pay him his 10 million?….I dont know, but he’s not worth 10 million anymore. Hayward took over his slot corner spot and argueably played to a Pro Bowl level. Maybe he’d take a pay cut, but its hard to see paying him more than 5 million, and the ? is would he be agreeable to a 50% pay cut?…..I have a hard time imagining any team in the league signing him for more than 5 million, if he were to be released.
The Packers would not go anywhere near Tadweeb. Next question.
Sam Shields was terrible last year (worse than Tramon this year, by far; Tramon actually had a decent year, granted not the last quarter of the season). I would expect Tramon to receive a similar treatment to the one Shields did last year, and I hope.\/expect him to rebound in the same fashion.
If it were up to me:
Benson – Back on a performance based contract.
Woods – Back. The run defense is still better with him and he’s not drawing as many flags in the Safety spot. I also still believe he’s better suited than MD or Jeron at this point. Even though he’s lost a step, his versatility and leadership are still a key asset to that secondary. To also put it in perspective, if Nick Collins career hadn’t ended, I think the Pack would be splitting ways with Woods this offseason.
Driver – I’ll personally miss Donald. We all know what’s coming. I’d love to see the team bring him on as a position coach.
Jennings – It’s Greg or Jermichael. Flip a coin. Unless Hawk is cut and Wood/Tramon takes a pay cut, one of them is gone. Form what I saw this season, when Greg was out, the offense was sluggish (save for a few games). Jordy is still best suited as a #2, along with James Jones. Moving Randall to the #1 spot will limit his versatility for package options that include him coming out of the backfield or the slot. I like Greg a lot, and even more, I like the attention the defense pays to him. It frees up opportunities and man coverage for people like Jermichael, Jones, and Randall. In summary, I think the Packers approach to Greg depends on how they handle the rest of this list.
Saturday – Gone. Had a great career, in Indy. HOF material but EDS will take that job next near unless we draft a replacement.
Jermichael – Refer to Greg Jennings. Flip a coin. Jermichael is a Jekyll and Hyde type player, plus I’m not a fan of his constant media “work”. But I also recognize his talent. He’s definitely more of an offensive threat that I feel we should have taken more advantage of over the course of the season when defenses were playing cover 2 and leaving the middle of the field unprotected. His blocking is give or take. Not phenomenal, but not terrible either. I think I speak for a lot of people who were recycling the same “He’s got all the potential in the world” argument year and year again, but never quite came to fruition like, say, a Jimmy Graham or Gronk. In the end, I think he’ll be that player that if he returns, I’ll be cursing his play next year, but if he leaves, I’ll be wishing we still had him.
A.J. – Get him out. No questions asked. He’s good for 2 solid games a year and 14 average-to-downright-terrible games. He’s a decent run stuffer but good lord he can’t cover shit.
Tramon – He stays. Yes Sam had a great year. But remember, it wasn’t long ago (last season) when there were questions about whether or not he would even pan out the way we thought. There’s no telling if this seasons performance was the real Sam or another flash in the pan result. Same goes with Casey Hayward. He was a rookie and only played sparingly. He benefited on many opportunistic plays because he’s covering the offenses 4th option. With that said, I love what I saw form him this season. Next season will give us a solid understanding of his long term potential. With that said, I’m not comfortable giving a starting spot to him just yet. Tramon stays, but he needs to renegotiate his contract. Add some performance incentives because he’s not the Tramon who earned it to begin with.
Ryan Grant – I love Ryan. I love his 4+ YPC average. I love his toughness. I love his work effort. I DON’T love his tendencies to fumble at the worst possible time. With the emergence of a younger DeJuan Harris and a more productive Cedric Benson coming back from injury, I don’t see Ryan returning. Great guy, good player, but there’s a reason he’s not a starter anywhere else too.
Great post, Adam.
I just want to comment on Jennings and Tramon.
I agree the offense was not the same without Jennings. However, most of that was also without Dujuan Harris. I really believe the Packers can be a more balanced offense next season and not rely on the passing game so much. You leave Cobb in the slot with Jones and Nelson on the outside. You keep Finley, and you still have 4 bonafide receiving weapons for defenses to worry about. If you keep Jennings, then in the 3 WR package, favored by the Packers, Jones goes to the bench. I don’t think you can justify that.
I still think Jennings is the best WR the Packers have, but he is not head and shoulders better than the other WRs. Finley IS that much better than our other TEs.
You go ahead and pay Tramon the big money without altering his contract. Was Woodson worth the money he was paid this year? Veterans have years where they weren’t worth the money they were paid. It happens. If you are going to renegotiate with a player every time he has a down year, then you have to expect the players to want to renegotiate every time they have a good year and play above their salary. The Packers don’t want to conduct business like that. Honor the contract.
I like the slideshow. It is something different.
Tramon is not going anywhere. It is tough to call Shields and Hayward the better corners when neither has to cover the opponent’s best WR every game. Tramon is still the Packers’ best option to cover Brandon Marshall and Calvin Johnson twice a year. His physicality needs to improve, but he was a year from his shoulder injury. Like Shields this season, Tramon could improve his tackling next season.
Because of the salary cap situation, AJ Hawk is not likely to go anywhere. Once a player is cut you no longer get to prorate his signing bonus. Instead the remainder counts against your cap the season you cut him. That would be a $4.8 million dollar hit in order to save $2.2 million. Just doesn’t make a lot of sense. At the minimum, he’s a dependable back up.
Finley is staying partly because the Packers have no comparable replacement. Quarless hasn’t seen the field since his injury and DJ Williams has shown nothing.
One would think that if the Packers were going to restructure Woodson’s contract, they would have done it by now. He may be gone.
Mason Crosby may also be gone. I expect a training camp competition is in order.
Ok — link me information regarding Hawk’s contract (he’s due $5.2 million in 2013, how the fuck would it cost $4.8 to cut him?) the only one spitting this information about it costing the organization that big of a cap hit is you. I know you like Hawk, you’ve backed him up on here before, but jesus christ man. I don’t care about your one-sided opinion, link me information. Your not a valid or a reliable source.
He’s in the same situation as Tramon Williams (why wouldn’t it take a cap hit to cut him?) if he isn’t going to start then why keep him around?
And let me spell this out for you on Hawk. HE WONT START IN 2013. Not with Bishop, Matthews, Smith, Perry, Moses, Walden, Jones and possibly an added draft pick. He serves ZERO purpose on a team where your going to pay a “serviceable backup” $5.3 mil/year — that’s embarrassing. No fucking way. Even if they do cut him and take a hit (it won’t be a $4.8 mil hit either) then over the course of the next three years it’s worth it — the loser is signed through 2015 at a ridiculous salary.
It’s also possible he’s traded (did this occur to you?) — which would be all for the best, but no one is going to give up a 4th or 5th round pick for a below average OLB who has zero speed and no pass rushing capabilities for the amount of money Hawk’s washed up ass will cost. He sucks, get over it. He’s not good.
Hawk was “cut” — I celebrated.
Hawk was “re-signed” for even *more* money — I cursed.
Hawk got a $8 mil signing bonus, which is pro-rated over a 5 year contract. Only 3/5s is left, $4.8 mil.
If he’s released AFTER June 1 — only $1.6 mil counts this coming season, the remainder of $3.2 the following season.
Either way, it’s a nominal impact on a team’s $121 million salary cap for 2013.
The money is still there for the Packers to spend in a way that won’t impact the cap
It doesn’t go to the league…
it doesn’t get shredded…
it doesn’t get burned…
it doesn’t get burned BY GIVING IT TO HAWK.
I could fuckin’ puke every time I see him crack his neck, or shake a leg — like he did something remotely athletic, that could have caused a cramp.
too far from LOS,
waits on a play to come to him,
overwhelmed by lead blockers,
can’t plug the gap before the runner’s through it,
can’t cover — two-down-player
AND HE’S ABSOLUTELY BUTT-UGLY
He can’t leave soon enough to please me!
(never, ever heard of anyone saying they liked slideshows… WTF is with that guy?)
Thank you, someone who finally put this retarded moron Illitarion in his damn place! Finally.
A $1.6 mil hit is a helluva lot different from a $4.8 million hit in one lump sum and like you say it’s non impact on the 2013 salary — which is the ONLY THING THAT FUCKING MATTERS.
“Mason Crosby may also be gone. I expect a training camp competition is in order.”
Why would you expect that? Because of his performance? Ha…you’re funny. I think MM and Mason are eskimo brothers…
Iltarion….I gotta admit, you make me laugh….Yes, The Packers will have to eat Hawks 4.8 mill prorated signing bonus, but it will be spread out the next 3 years at 1.6 million each year, NOT go against the cap in 1 year as you post…….Then you say all they would save is 2.2 million, so it isnt worth it. Iltarion, if you did some research, you’d see the Packers, by cutting Hawk, would save (sit down for this) 17.1 million in salary and roster bonus’s over the next 3 years. Meaning —-> The Packers would save on average 4.1 million a year by cutting Hawk……The Packers are not going to pay Hawk 17.1 million, to be a “dependable” back up as you wrote….HAWK is gone. Now…..As far as Woodson…..The guy played 7 games…..missed 9 games, 2 broken collar bones…If you think TT is going to pay him 10 million missing that many games, 2 recent collarbone breaks, being 37, you are crazy……Iltarion….In 1 post you write Packers will honor Woodsons contract, the next post under it you say that he may be gone….Which is it?………………On the other side….as much as i feel like Finley is a cancer on this team….I agree with Iltarion that the talent “drop off” to the other TE’s is greater than the receiver drop off concerning Jennings. Based on that, and MM’s recent praise of Finley, they may keep him around.
Illitarion put in his place TWICE!!! Nicely done!
Now…I’d like to vent on Tramon….lol…What has he done since 2010?……Shoulder injury excuse for poor play last year?….Is that why he couldnt tackle in 2011?…….Then please tell me, why he couldnt tackle in 2012. Tell me why receivers consistently get open against him. Someone said Sam Shields didnt have a good season……Who did? Hayward did….Sam Shields had a great year in 2010, like Tramon did, alot of players had a good year in 2010, the defense was ranked 5th, not just Tramon. At least Shields is willing to tackle. Shields played 10 games, had 3 picks….Tramon played 16 games, had 2 picks……The Packers said the cornerback positions going into next season are wide open. Thats code for Tramon isnt playing well and getting the job done, and he’s not going to be a back-up being paid 6.2 million……if Tramon was let go, i’d go to his house and help him pack.
I’m waiting for the Dom Capers article…I may not be so nice in that one :)…….Its one thing losing a game…Its another thing giving up 325 yards rushing in a playoff game, and 571 yards overall. Did that really happen?…I still cant believe it. Is our defense THAT bad? OR……Was it coaching?…Did Capers get out coached?…..or, when Woodson was asked after the game “What adjustments did Capers make at halftime?” Woodson said: “He didnt make any adjustments”. I dont think Woodson lied……..If someone was bleeding to death, do you not try to stop the bleeding?…..Does Capers not try something different, like playing zone?……or do you just do ….nothing?…..i dont get it…..As a Packer fan, that was highly embarrassing……Its no wonder why Capers elected NOT to talk to the media after the game.
This off season. The Packers need to make good sound personnel decisions…Not based on emotion towards a player…..Or the fact someone had a good year in 2010…That means coaches and players. Make decisions that are in the best interest of the team….2010 was 2 years ago….Lets look forward…We have too much talent on this team to get our asses handed to us the way it was last week. We also have to find some 1st and 2nd round picks that can actually make plays and get on the field.
MXZ600, PackAttack: I agree with you guys, and what you say makes a load of sense. I’d come pretty close to cleaning house. Send a message: “you don’t come to work without a “heart.”
However, I’ve got a sickening feeling… it started with the “appalled” comment: this group is accountable to no one. If they’d won another SB with this cast, I consider keeping 2/3rds of these people. But since they haven’t won, but rather lost in a spectacular fashion — I’d jettison the lot…
I believe the Packers need to improve at the MLB spot, so I am completely fine with Hawk getting the boot.
I am not stating what I want. I am stating what I believe will happen. If you cut Hawk this offseason, you lose $4.8 million in salary cap space, whether all next season or over the next two years. Hawk’s cap hit is $7 million next year. So, you would essentially be saving yourself $2.2 million.
You can’t count future years as savings because that money is not guaranteed, only the signing bonus is. Hawk is scheduled to make $7.5 mil in 2014. You cut him next offseason, create $3.2 in dead money, and save yourself $4.3 million. That makes more sense.
The two best ILBs on the team- Desmond Bishop and AJ Smith are both coming off season ending injuries. Good idea to keep a guy around who knows the position.
All this info can be found right here- http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/a.j.-hawk/
The Packer defense made a bunch of adjustments in the 2nd half. Just rewatch the game once.
Now your fine with Hawk getting the boot after you’ve clearly advocated for him time and time again? Come on man. Is he dependable or not? Stick to one opinion but don’t change your stance because everyone on this board thinks your a looney tune for being the only one standing by Hawk.
“Iltarion….I gotta admit, you make me laugh….Yes, The Packers will have to eat Hawks 4.8 mill prorated signing bonus, but it will be spread out the next 3 years at 1.6 million each year, NOT go against the cap in 1 year as you post…….Then you say all they would save is 2.2 million, so it isnt worth it. Iltarion, if you did some research, you’d see the Packers, by cutting Hawk, would save (sit down for this) 17.1 million in salary and roster bonus’s over the next 3 years.”
That’s all that needs to be said about you. That’s it. Your done. You have no rebuttal for that. Call it a day and have a coke and smile and we’ll be seeing ya Illitarion.
Who the fuck is AJ Smith? You mean DJ Smith. The guy who outplayed Hawk in training camp and pre-season? And Bishop one of the more well established LB’s the past few years? Okay they’re coming off season-ending injuries — so what? So was Woodson a few years ago, so was Finley in 2010, WHO THE FUCK HASN’T BEEN ON IR ON THIS TEAM!? Who cares. Hawk sucks. Move on. He’s fat, he’s slow, he’s old, he’s ugly, he’s shitty. See ya. Fly away Hawk.
Cut: Tramon, Hawk, Crosby, Woodson, Driver — save all the money you can.
Sign: OT, bring in Jake Long and draft a center Barrett Jones or Travis Frederick. I’d attempt to re-sign Jennings but whatever if you can’t get him target Terrance Williams.
DT/DE – You need someone here to step in and create some kind of a pass-rushing presence, I feel this is one of the biggest areas of need. Pickett is old, flow and shitty.
DB – With Woodson and Tramon leaving (possibly) you need to re-establish some depth back here and it’d be nice to dip into free agency to do. I don’t see the draft being able to solve this problem.
#1 – THE RUN GAME – Apparently no defensive coordinator in the NFL was scared at Mike McCarthy’s pathetic attempts to run the football 430+ times this season, a margin which couldn’t even net him 4.0 yards per/carry, instead they welcomed McCarthy to do so instead of letting the league MVP throw to one of his 5 legit WR’s. I’m sorry but DuJuan Harris, James Starks, Benson, Grant and whoever else aren’t going to keep safeties from playing 25 yards deep vs. GB. An established dual threat RB will. This is the one area McCarthy needs to strike gold with if he hopes to contend in 2013. Since McCarthy has switched over to his 50/50 run 430 times pass later approach, the Pack are going to need a “feature back” to carry that load.
Illitarion you suck
“The Packers will have to eat Hawks 4.8 mill prorated signing bonus, but it will be spread out the next 3 years at 1.6 million each year, NOT go against the cap in 1 year as you post…….Then you say all they would save is 2.2 million, so it isnt worth it. Iltarion, if you did some research, you’d see the Packers, by cutting Hawk, would save (sit down for this) 17.1 million in salary and roster bonus’s over the next 3 years.”
That’s all that needs to be said about you. That’s it.”
Ah… except that shit is WRONG, as already pointed out by GBslacker. If the Packers cut Hawk before June 1st, the entire $4.8 million counts against the 2013 salary cap. If they cut him after June 1, then $1.6 counts against 2013 and $3.2 counts against 2014. Either way, it is a $4.8 mil hit in order to NOT pay Hawk $7 mil this year. Lets try basic math 7-4.8 = 2.2. It really isn’t that complicated.
As I already said, you can’t count Hawk’s entire contract as savings. None of that money is guaranteed and much of it is likely to never be paid to him. You can only count as savings the money you save THAT year.
Here’s some more food-for-thought, regarding the GB salary cap(*)…
…Once a player’s yearly salary is roughly equal to his accelerated cap hit, IMO he’s disposable.
Pay the guy: be out the money.
Dump the guy: be out the same amount of money.
I’m thinking it’s better to dump him BEFORE June 1st, so the poison-pill can be absorbed in one season — instead of having it linger to the following season. This will help clean up the salary situation when contracts for Raji, Matthews, and others come due.
The same goes for Tramon: dump him. At 29, both Hawk and Tramon won’t be playing better in the future, likely as mediocre as they play today. Additionally, as players go deeper into their contract, the more money they’re paid and the more injury-prone they become. Can’t play the game with “Woodsons” on the sideline; can’t field a competitive team with “Woodson” money tied up in injured players.
(*) don’t know if this info is valid, but it’s likely close:
While GB is not in the red, they’re fairly close — far from the situation in IND, MIA, or TB. Of course, at this time of the year, there’s “bizarro” money on the line — in terms of off-season bonuses, etc that teams know they have to re-work.
PackAttack please take your 12 year old gay ass to another website. You obviously have a sexual attraction to Itarion judging by your constant preoccupation with him and his posts. The funny thing is that while Itarion often has intelligent, legitimate things to say, you on the other hand know as much about football as I do about quantum physics… Your a fucking retard of the greatest order.
Please do us all a favor and Log Off Life. Thanks…
Tramon dont let the fucking door hit you on the way out you piece of shit.
Its not JUST about talent, Tramon obviously had personal issues this season and was a detriment to the entire team, he needs to take that shit down the road….
Talk about intelligence of the highest caliber. Sexual attraction to message board posts? Do you got some issues that need to be worked out or what? Go out and get laid or something dude. In two posts you didn’t manage one single coherent sentence or thought you just bitched, complained and managed to lay out three sexual innuendo remarks and proved your stupidity by thinking anything Illitraion posts can be regarded as intelligence.
Furthermore, while Tramon might have underperformed this year — I’m not so sure I would say he’s a piece of shit. I’d say the real piece of shit is the guy with issues sitting behind his computer screen bitching and whining about sexual attractions and calling out people for being gay instead of making an actual point. Tramon is wiping his ass with money right now while your sitting in your parents basement talking about homosexuals on message boards — I’d say that makes you the real piece of shit.
Slideshow! Awesome tech Monty. I think Charles is back at a reduced salary cap rate which still pays him his contract but extends it by another year after he hangs it up (spreads cost).
With the money we save from letting these guys go, we may have about 7 Million in cap space from what I read elsewhere. If that’s the case, it would be enough to pay our upcoming picks + maybe grab a guy from another team to add depth to our D Line.
Here are a couple of names I like in Free Agency who should be versatile enough, based on body type, to fit our scheme.
Ricky Jean-Francois (Justin Smith’s backup) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12443/ricky-jean-francois
Henry Melton (yes, a former Bear) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12695/henry-melton
Terrance Knighton (lost his starting job and has some “issues” but still talented and might be cheapest option)
Go post, VJ. I don’t see anyway that the Bears let Henry Melton go though, unless someone offers him something insane, which we won’t.
With Mike Daniels and Jerel Worthy waiting in the wings, I don’t see us making a move there.
My theory is that PackAttack is either two people or a schizo. He had about a 2 month stretch there when he was actually being a solid contributor to the conversation. Now he is back to blathering nonsense like LT after an 8 ball.
As Rebel properly noted, he also has an odd fixation to my every word. He is like an iltarion clone on crack.
lmao….I dont care about how anyone wants to slice it up…..Get rid of players who are afraid to tackle and their multimillion dollar contract…DON’T keep players because they used to be good…Fix the GOD DAM 0 line TT!!!!…….And don’t EVER. EVER….have another shit poor embarrasing defensive performance like the one we saw against the 9ers……I wouldnt have mind losing that game so much……..IF i saw some fight and toughness in the defense………..middle of the field WIDE fuckin open for Kaepernick, all game long, because no one can keep their assignments….Because no one can get off blocks……if that means getting rid of Capers….so be it…..No one seems like they have to be accountable on this team
I wonder what was said between TT and Capers goes after the game……Does TT pat Capers on the back and say good effort?”….Does he say “They played their hearts out?”……”They really battled out there?”………….or, did they not talk at all?….That wouldnt surprise me.
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